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mkopelke |
Part One: Prison |
Lead | |
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Well, Part One of this exciting new audio series has finally arrived on the Internet (despite having the script written about 2-3 years ago!), and we hope that you all feel that it has been worth the wait. The biggest challenge with this particular audio series was that unlike our Doctor Who range, we were really setting a benchmark ourselves, as fan audio series for Blakes 7 are few and far between (only a handful were ever produced in the 1990s), so we had the challenge of trying to decide how to create a brand new series that would act as a sequel to the original, appeal to both new and old listeners alike, while at the same time managing to reclaim the atmosphere that made the original series so appealing. Feel free to vote in the below poll to register an anonymous vote, or reply to this message to join in a lively discussion with members of the cast and crew!
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witold tietze |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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i've not listened to this ep in a long while (it was finished about a year ago), so i'll limit critical comments to a couple of brief remarks. however, i wouldn't mind sharing some of the background regarding this series, if that's okay with everyone.
right, critical commentary bit. the delivery of some of kath's lines is a bit rougher than i'd have liked. i'd long intended to re-record some of them, but other projects kept getting in the way. however, hers isn't a terribly large role, so the handful of (imho) dud lines ain't that much of a detriment. oh, and my warden is still a touch one-note, but again he's a one-off so no biggie. erm, i think that's about it. haven't heard the music yet, so no comment there, but i recall that the rest of the ep held together pretty well. kudos to all the actors, as everyone seemed to do fairly well. post-prod is damn good, too. everything else i had a heavy hand in, so i'll shut up now. right. background. this script was written 3 years ago this month, if you can believe it. before that, matt had come up with a fairly broad series outline, which i developed a bit further, mostly because i'd seen more blakes 7 eps. the plan was then for me to churn out the scripts fairly quickly. except that other things like dw and our pro lines got in the way. so we had one ep written, which was nice. about a year later, we decided to revive the project. by april of 2002, i had ep 2 written, and then ep 3 was completed around june. (iirc, all this was mentioned in posts back when we had a blakes legacy forum, all of which have presumably been deleted.) casting got under way, and we actually recorded two episodes. we got through most of episode 2 as well, which matt directed as i was unavailable on the one day we could secure all three leads. said episode will be completed by february 1st, with post-production to follow over the subsequent month. episode 3 is currently entirely complete. currently, i am half way through the scripting of episode 4 -- again, other projects got in the way -- but i am confident that the writing of the serial will be finished by around mid-year, which is of course the deadline for such things. if this first serial does well, we already have plans to follow it up with one or two more, each of which will have its own unique subtitle. blakes legacy is the overall series title, while restoration is merely the title of this serial. (the subtitle idea was adopted to avoid confusion with another fan production called blakes legacy.) anyway, i hope everyone enjoys this dip into another sf universe. even if you're not a blakes 7 fan, there's no reason why it shouldn't appeal, as the time gap (which is actually closer to 40 years, i should note) means that we're dealing with all new characters and adventures, and that it's basically just set in the same universe. in fact, blakes 7: the next generation may not be the least appropriate description, although it's safe to say that the general plot here differs from the parent series insofar as it's not just another bunch of freedom fighters in a souped-up starship battling against some supreme commander or other. in short, we're exploring concepts from the original series while also extrapolating from them, and producing something fairly new and original, while retaining some of the flavour of the parent series. nothing is certain. maybe.
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DoctorBooBu |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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I'm afraid I'm having some trouble downloading this. The file gets to around 300K and then just stops. Anyone else suffering from similar problems?
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trevorgensch |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
Quote: That happened to me initially but on the third try to download the whole 9 meg or so came down. Trev. |
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trevorgensch |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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What an interesting little story - I was looking forward to listening to this one merely because it was a chance for the BTR team to attempt something away from the cosy confines of Doctor Who with its established continuity and environment and try something that could almost be considered original.
With an audio like this though I found it comforting and helpful to try and imagine parallels between the characters of the original television series and the characters of this new audio adventure. I know that that isn't the intent, but it was interesting to draw some comparisons between the two. Kane and Allison probably come off the best with their characterisations - I particularly enjoyed Allison's Jorma. After an early shaky start with her lines (perhaps put off by the truly awful Kathryn as Belle - who I truly hoped would have a rendevous with an airlock before the episode was out) she became a lot more confident. As an aside - did Kathryn and Allison record their lines together or seperately? I would hazard a guess and say the former, as Allison did improve once she didn't had to bounce off the script-reading, line stumbling Kathryn. Kane's Style to me was more of a Tarrant than a Avon; Style lacked Avon's natural devil may care attitude and came across more like a level headed Tarrant. Matthew's Asimov (what an awful name!) did indeed seem to be reaching towards a Villa - although it felt constrained as I detected virtually no difference in voice inflections and mannerisms between Matthew's 9th Doctor and his Villa. After an initial mischevious laugh Matthew seemed to find it difficult to inject Asimov with anything to truly set this new voice apart from his 9th Doctor. The story itself is fine - perhaps too much of a retread of the second story of the television series for my liking (rougish prisoners break out of prison). In recreating the TV series it will be difficult to avoid repeating the motivations of what made them tick. I look forward to future episodes now that we actually are out of prison and into the big bad world and it is my earnest hope that some truly original plot lines will now ensue. On a technical side, one of the things I always listen out for is the ability of the story to emerse me in the location - music, sound effects etc. On the whole it did very well - especially the prison mess - although the girls did seem to be walking very fast at one point! It did seem to trail off towards the end - Hutchison's guard searching at the end seemed to be pawing through a few bits of metal, and the whole escape semeed to rely on the claxon blaring rather than any other more meaningful sound effect. The use of silent passages with only incidental music (was that mainly Star Trek music or something?) was interesting, although I did get a bit bored - transition passages seem to work well when there are visuals to accompany the transition - when you are keen for the next bit of story to begin a long music piece is just tedious. On music, I was surprised and perhaps a little disappointed that a new realisation of the theme wasn't there. It seems with this one you weren't able/didn't want to have original music in it. Its purely a personal thing but one of the things I was most looking forward to was a re-interpretation of the theme. Part One shows promise - as long as Kathryn doesn't escape (oh god, don't make her a new Servalan or anything! Please!), Matthew can find a new resonance for his Asimov (nope... still an awful name) and the overall soundscape can be beefed up considerably. Trev. |
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mkopelke |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
Quote: Hmmm... I've heard reports from quite a number of people who appear to be having this problem, and I can't seem to work out why. Currently the files for this episode are being hosted on our Yahoo! Geocities server, as I cannot seem to access my ECN FTP account at this stage (I can still download files off it, just not log into it). I suspect it's just a glitch with the Yahoo! Geocities server. All I can say is for people to keep re-trying to download it until they manage to get it all. Use a download manager, because that should force all the download to come down. |
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mkopelke |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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Trev,
Quote: Well, if that's what you're looking for from us, perhaps you should finally take the plunge and purchase some of our semi-pro original audio titles? Those are completely original productions from us, and are certainly very different to our Doctor Who and Blakes Legacy product lines. If you want to find out more about said series, go and check out our "BTR Audio" sub-forum for reviews and discussion about the lines. Quote: Well, when I wrote the original series overview I kinda wrote clones of Jenna, Avon, and Villa. It was thanks to Witold that they became less like clones, and more like real people. Then the performances made them even more distinctive, as you note below. Quote: Well, Kathryn isn't really an actor, I believe, but we roped her in simply because we needed someone to play the bit part of Belle (as an aside, originally Alison was going to play Belle, and another female actress entirely was to play Jorma - but that fell through, so Alison got a promotion). IMHO, she does an above average job of portraying the character, which is all one really needs from a cameo appearance. Quote: No, they recorded all their lines together. For the most part, it's a BTR house rule that we record all lines together to avoid performances issues. There are slight exceptions to this (eg: Present, Past, & Future Danger from our Doctor Who line). Quote: Well, that comes from Kane's interpretation of Witold's de-Avonised character that I originally came up with. Consider Style an amalgamation of Avon and Tarrant - that's a nice way of looking at it. Quote: Perhaps it's your over familiarity with my performance as the Doctor, but I disagree. I know I for one really did put a lot of effort into realising a younger-sounding, more whiney character interpretation more befitting the character of Asimov. I wasn't intentionally reaching for a Villa performance, but I can see where the parallels might exist. The performance I did here was attempting to reflect the fact that I did not have to sound like a 1000 year old Time Lord with the weight of the universe on his shoulders. Quote: Well, any pilot episode is going to most likely push the same buttons as the parent series - after all, Prison is all about setting up the situation for our three leads. Thankfully, having written the original series outline, and having read the re-working Witold gave it, as well as having recorded both Parts Two and Three, I know for a fact we slowly start to take our series is a different direction. Quote: Well, to be honest there are great big chunks of this episode that I am also not happy with now. This is because the episode was actually post-produced about a year ago, and has been sitting on my hard drive gathering e-dust while I waited for the 40th Anniversary of Doctor Who to get out of the way (we chose to put all our product lines on hold in 2003 to allow us to focus on releasing a record amount of Doctor Who titles). As such, I've learnt quite a lot in the last 12 months, which I hope to show in subsequent episodes. Quote: It was indeed music from the pilot episode of Enterprise. We did try for an original score for this piece, and although very good, it wasn't as good as using stock music. My idea behind the long passages of nothing was out of a desire to pay homage to the original series which had similar sequences where shots of space ships and space stations were seen. However, it doesn't work here, I agree - but that comes back to what I was saying above about learning quite a bit since doing this episode. I really should have created soundscapes to run under those musical bridges to enhance the sequences. Quote: We considered it, but figured "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" pretty much summed up our thoughts on it. Whereas Doctor Who changed its theme tune with the appearance of each new Doctor, Blakes 7 used the same one throughout (with only a slight variation used in Season Four). To that end, we figured it best to stick with Deadly Dudley's version. It's still a cracker of a theme tune, though? Thanks for the time taken to listen and review the episode Trev. Much appreciated. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on Part Two (Kerona) in March! |
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witold tietze |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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it's good to see we've got reviews already. well, a review. but it's better than nothing.just a few questions and comments as always...
Quote: in what way? Quote: well, look on the bright side: if it had turned out anything like our current dw theme arrangement, you'd be complaining that it's awful, so at least you get something you've already got a judgement on. Quote: who knows: now that you've mentioned the idea, i might take you up on it. after all, i've not finished writing the serial yet, so anything can happen. seriously, if you read a little higher in this thread (i realise you must find this something of a chore, as you seldom appear to actually do it), you'll note that i've already mentioned that no such character type will appear in the serial. now, i should add that this isn't intended to have a go at you, but as i've said before, a lack of research can make a review look less reliable than it actually is. and it's not like it's difficult research. on the plus side, i'm sure kathryn will appreciate that you spelled her name corectly throughout -- a lot of reviewers in the past have come up with the strangest variations! Quote: again, in what way? sorry, but this is extremely unhelpful for those of us responsible for coming up with the names. Quote: that's good advice. and given the huge thread we all once had on the validity of said series, i'm astonished anyone involved in it could have forgotten about its very existence. well, there's that and the big banner ad on the front page, the devoted sub-forum... Quote: it amuses me in a good way that style has been compared to tarrant instead of "a avon". (grammar police!) this means that we've all been somewhat successful in making a suitable transition. Quote: that belief is correct. she's very much a non-actor, often the first to say so, and only ever does these minor roles (notice we never give her any lead parts) as a favour to me, really. we had a shortage of female actors at the time, so this was the best we could do. she improves with loads more takes, which i note above that i'd intended to do, but again the busy end of btr got in my way. Quote: with a bit of style (the character, not the noun) thrown in, too. Quote: i'd back this up by also suggesting that matt gave it a different performance. maybe i have the advantage of knowing what matt sounds like normally, and also being familiar with the range of performances he's given beyond traditional recognition and a sprinkle of stardust. Quote: i'd have said quickly, myself. the breakout was unavoidable, as it sets these particular characters off. (that said, i tried to make it as different as possible, so you've got a different flavour of prison, a different circumstance behind the breakout, a different ship, different characters, the sadistic warden wanting to break men's fingers instead of rape the one woman on board, etc.) once the next episode starts, it's all fairly original plotting. i'm sure parallels can and will be made between other episodes, but then such tends to be the nature of much written work, as it all revolves around six key story types at its simplest level and revolves around 100 years of sf tropes (which i suspect somebody is going to label "cliches" at some point) at the more specific end. Quote: and listened to the director when he complained about this a year ago? nothing is certain. maybe.
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trevorgensch |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
Quote: It has no originality and stands out like a sore thumb. Quote: I think I have finally figured it out - you berate me for having a go at you when you say things like what is quoted above - my preconception of something. You don't consider it an insult. I do. To answer it - I come into your productions with no preconceptions - if you had an original theme tune and it was good I would have said so. That your Doctor Who one sucks is a matter of public record. Quote: Listen you, I read your report, and enjoyed it. That does not preclude me from saying something about it. It also does not preclude me from having a bit of fun with my sentence. The character as it stood was fine - its just the delivery that was truly awful. To make it easier for you - my hope is that Kathryn does not return to portray *any* character. Quote: Oh my goodness yes, your sage words are in the thread, guarantee surely that they will be remembered long after the works of Shakespeare and Tolstoy have been ground to dust. Quote: Absolutely - the transition worked well - I only thought of original series characters as a reference point - at no time during my listening to Prison did I have the tv series characters visuals in my head. Quote: Thats the impression I got too - she seemed to be reading her lines straight from the script - it was like she didn't know them and was not familiar with the inflections needed to transcend a script read through to a believable "real life" performance. Quote: Fair enough. For me Matthew didn't sound sufficiently different from his Doctor to be truly disctinctive. Quote: Can I ask why the decision was made to have your main characters as prisoners as in the original series? It still niggles at the back of my mind that the set up for your audio series is for all intents and purposes identical to the tv series. Trev. |
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witold tietze |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
Quote: so should i take it that you simply don't like homages to well-known people by cribbing their names? if so, all is clear. Quote: i don't consider what you quoted to be an insult because it was actually a light-hearted go at btr's expense. if you took offense at that, then i apologise, but such a thought wasn't anywhere near my mind when i wrote what i wrote. please take a chill pill. Quote: how am i supposed to know that you're having fun with your sentence? again, i think it's chill pill time, as you seem to get angry over very innocent comments. a lot. Quote: yeah, i got that bit. Quote: obviously you didn't notice that i was having fun with what you said and took the joke one stage further. i'm pretty sure i even put in a great big smiley to really get the point across. honestly, if i can't even share a joke with you, then i start to wonder why i bother trying to defuse potential clashes by being light-hearted. i honestly thought a joke might prevent an attack, not cause one. Quote: you make it sound like a publically known fact. your opinion that it sucks may be a matter of public record, but no more. other opinions are also publically recorded, some of which claim to like the thing. please don't be so arrogant to believe or suggest that your opinion is fact. what's that you say? that's not what your statement meant? then why don't you write it to reflect what it does mean, instead of something else entirely? put simply, if you can't communicate your thoughts on a forum, then nobody is going to get them. Quote: who said i was referring to my words? i'm talking about a completely separate thread to this one. listen, i'm getting insanely sick of all the sarcastic, narky bullshit you keep spouting forth at me when i say anything at all, sometimes even when i'm being complimentary! keep it up and i'm going to start using my mod powers to start deleting some of it. because i know they've been deeply offending me for years, and i gather they offend others as well, and i'm no longer willing to tolerate the abuse, quite frankly. you've been warned. Quote: on account of she's a non-actor, largely. Quote: got that the first time, and didn't dispute your opinion. Quote: because the angle we wanted to take was for them to be outside the law. why we did a prison break is matt's call -- that was decided before i came on board -- so you'll have to wait for his answer. but like i say, i tried to make the script give the impression that it was an otherwise totally different situation, and i'm still confident that had this not been a blakes 7 spin-off, nobody would've drawn the parallel. (which isn't a justification, i hasten to add.) mind you, "all intents and purposes", as you note, are strictly limited to "a group of fugitives escape federation apprehension by boarding a stolen ship". everything else is different. i grant you that's the core plot focus, but all the dressing is completely different. nothing is certain. maybe.
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trevorgensch |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
Quote: AndI am getting insanely sick of your constant jibes at me which are supposedly allright as long as there is a smiley at the end of it. You insult me by saying that I obviously haven't read your report, but then you say, oh no, that wasn't an insult. Look at your own way of phrasing things (if that's at all possible) cause it comes across as offensive. Oh, and go for it with your "mod powers". That such use of powers is beyond what is considered acceptable. Fix up my formatting, spelling errors and so forth, but do not, do not alter my posts. To do so would show an attitude of immaturity I suspected in you all along. We all have the right of reply and all have the expectation that that right of reply is untampered. Reply and explain yourself by all means. That is what this forum is all about. I'll be keeping my copies of these posts to ensure that you don't alter my thoughts. Trev. |
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DoctorBooBu |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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On the topic of the episode...
Having never seen an episode of Blake's 7 before, I came into this fresh, but enjoyed it greatly regardless. Somehow despite the traditional 30 minute format I did feel the episode felt a bit rushed, but this was probably due to the amount of information needed to be crammed in. The three main performances were good (I thought Matthew gave a performance quite distinct from his Doctor), although as previously mentioned Kathryn isn't great (though this is fully understandable taking into account your earlier remarks on this subject). I'm also glad you didn't do a new version of the theme tune, as I've only heard snippets previously and it really is a terrific tune. Morgan P.S. Why was the blooper reel so short? I was disappointed! |
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mkopelke |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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Morgan,
Quote: Well, that's kind of comment were were hoping to receive a few of. Blakes 7 isn't as well known and loved as Doctor Who is, so we kinda knew that a lot of people would be unfamiliar with the TVseries. Am glad you enjoyed it, Morgan, despite being a B7 virgin! Quote: I suppose that's the problem any series pilot is going to face. No matter how much time you have available, you still have to squeeze in an entire premise for the series in the first episode. Thankfully, despite the episode feeling a bit rushed, we hope things held together quite well. Quote: Well, am pleased you found my performance distinct from my Doctor performance, as I was terribly conscious of potential comparisons being drawn between the two. As such, I did my upmost to ensure the two performances were as clear as possible - the whiney Asmiov against the serious Doctor. Quote: Agreed. I debated long and hard about getting a new version of the theme tune composed for this series, and although it would have been very easy for us to get one done, I decided against it, because Dudley Simpson's theme tune and arrangement of said theme is a true icon of the series. Quote: Was wondering when someone would make such a comment. Basically, the idea for me is to make each "release" exactly 30 minutes long. Given the episode itself was 29:30, this left only 30 seconds for bloopers. The next episode is a bit shorter than Prison, so the bloopers should be longer. |
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mkopelke |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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OK guys - tensions (once again) seem to be running hot in this thread, and it comes as no surprise to find Witold and Trev at the centre of it once again. I'd thought these guys would have learnt in the Countdown thread - obviously not.
Essentially, what I see here is two people who have both made their own respective posts, but in each occasion have either mis-interpreted the meaning of the other person's comments, or taken light-hearted comments to be serious statements of fact. As far as I see it, the situation has developed because of a number of isolated examples. Let me go through them below: Example One Witold said: Quote: In response, Trevor said: Quote: In this particular situation, I suspect it's Trevor who's taken the wrong impression away from what Witold said. Witold is at no level berating Trevor for saying anything - he was merely making a joke about the theme tune comment. I don't know why Trevor brought this issue of "preconceptions" into it. Example Two Witold said: Quote: (my emphasis) In response, Trevor said: Quote: Okies - this example is complex, because it starts with Witold making another joke at no-ones expense, and Trevor taking the wrong end of the stick. However, I can justifably see why he took it the way he did - the bits I put emphasis on I feel were poorly used on Witold's part, as although they convey his meaning perfectly, therein lies a subtext which does appear to have negative connotations. So in this instance I honestly feel that Witold wasn't having a go at Trevor, but Trevor felt he was. On this note, I do feel that Trevor's response was a touch heavy handed, so I think this is a case of both parties being partly in the wrong because of the limitations of text-based communication. Example Three Witold said: Quote: In response, Trevor said: Quote: I think the saying "no one likes a smart arse" springs to mind here. Both comments appear to be rather sarcastic in tone, and although I understand Witold's meaning in what he says, I honestly felt it could have been worded in such a way to less likely get the response from Trevor that it did. On the same token, Trevor's comment was certainly not what should have been said to keep things tension free. Although Witold had every right to say the meaning of what he said, I suspect the words should have been better chosen to keep things more neutral. Same for Trevor. Okies - that's about it as far as direct examples go. I apologise to everyone reading this thread for going on about this situation as much as I have, but I've had both Witold and Trevor privately contact me to ask about commenting and/or trying to sort out this situation, so I figured I'd best step in and address it now before any more punches were thrown by either party. In summary, I think what needs to happen to prevent this situation from continuing now, and into the future, is for both Witold and Trevor to start realising that neither party is really here to berate the other, and that despite what is said, this isn't to be reflected in comments that people make. As Trevor said, he came here because he wanted to review something that he honestly did enjoy, but for some reason it turned into what it has. I think the biggest catalyst for these issues is what Witold and I refer to as the limitations of text-based communications. As text-only conversation lacks a lot of apparent subtext, it's hard sometimes for people to understand what the other is saying, and this can obviously lead to misunderstandings and conflict on certain levels. On the same token, I will also not tolerate people contributing to this forum making personal statements about other people. Trevor, you are indeed guilty of this, despite what provocation you may or may not have had for making such comments as "show[s] an attitude of immaturity I suspected in you all along". That's bang out of order, and you know it. One other thing I will say is that I will not allow any moderator on this forum to edit another person's post to censor or remove / alter content. Sure, fix up formatting issues to improve readability, but any threats of post tampering I take seriously. In summary, I hope this is the last time I have to defuse one of these situations. Both Witold and Trevor are valued members of our little community here, and I would hate for this continuing situation to drive either party away from here, as that would rob us of what is at times some very interesting and thought-provoking discussion about various aspects of media creation and production. Finally, could I ask that either party please not reply to this post of mine in any level of detail (simple replies are more than welcome, in case I've missed anything, or said the wrong thing), for I live in fear of what I've said might be taken the wrong way. I am simply trying to ensure the happiness and stability of this community remains, and that all members feel they are welcome to contribute whatever they feel they can - just so long as it doesn't upset others, or cause offence. Let this be the end of the fighting and the bickering - let's just enjoy what everyone has to offer and can bring to these discussions! |
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trevorgensch |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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All I will say in response to that balanced response is something on this:
Quote: Absolutely, I knew it wsa when I posted it. I just wanted to say it would never have been posted if Witold hadn't pulled out the "ultimate threat" of post tampering. That's what really stuck in my craw and prompted my email to you. 'nuff said - trying to listen to Dominion, and this is interrupting me! Trev. |
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mkopelke |
Re: Part One: Prison | ||
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Trev,
Quote: Well, just so you know for next time please don't make statements such as that, simply because they are out of order, and aren't needed in the first place. If you have an issue with someone on the forum, e-mail me - don't post insulting comments, regardless of your motivation. Quote: Hope you're enjoying it, and I look forward to reading a review from you in the next couple of days. |
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Guest |
Technical question | ||
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What program am I supposed to use to open this audio file?
Darran |
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mkopelke |
Re: Technical question | ||
Guest |
I'm not stupid | ||
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I'm not stupid Matt, but I'm not familiar with audio programs and when you change from one format to another I find myself at a loss as to what extra bit of software I now need to download in order to listen to your audios. With regards to the "whopping great big Winamp logo" you refer to - do you mean the icon above the latest releases box with the words "download my music here" on it? Clarification without sarcasm would be appreciated.
Darran |
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mkopelke |
Re: I'm not stupid | ||
Quote: Sorry mate - I wasn't trying to suggest that you were stupid, so I apologise if that was the impression in my previous post. Sufficed to say, the reason we switched formats again was because too many people were complaining about us using RealAudio and RealVideo, and so I decided to switch to a format which used the almost industry-standard media player Winamp. I'll be the first one to say that I am sick of switching formats, because something that no-one seems to realise is that it takes me hundreds of hours to re-encode everything we've produced, which is such an annoying process... Anyway, the Winamp logo I am referring to is the one on the front page which is down the bottom, beneath the news section, but before the page stats link and the counter. Just click on that, and it'll take you to the main Winamp web site where you can download the latest version which will play our audios without any plugins. Hope this has been of some help, and again, apologies for the sarcastic tone in my previous post. At the time, I thought it was funny, but on reflection I can see how someone might find it insulting. |
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Guest |
Thanks | ||
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Having now scrolled down to the bottom of the home page I see the link quite plainly. Thank you for the directions.
Darran |
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