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matt said, re: f10:

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I don't count them anymore, because they've not released anything in 4 years, and are a dead group. They are not what you could call active...

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that's not technically true. they did release a little comedy sketch a couple of months back, which ran to around two minutes. sounded alright, but hardly anything to get excited about.

no, f10's claims to fame are twofold: they were essentially the first fan audio group to release exclusively on the web, and their forum's remained a semi-active hive of villainy and pointless back-slapping ever since. they're like the republican party: you notice they're there, but they achieve bugger all of anything useful except invading everyone.

btw, of the currently active groups matt listed, i'd put dam, dwad and btr up as the big releasers, with fineline coming a close second (albeit mostly as phantom frame), and then people like xa and ultimate reality all doing maybe an episode a year if they're really running hot. though at least ultimate reality sort of have a good excuse, at least in my eyes: their production values shit over just about everyone else's. well, they did when i last listened to their stuff, which was when they last released anything, which was a while ago. it's a pain in the arse to have to wait four years for their initial serial to be completed (especially at 12-15 minutes per episode!), but it's worth it for the production value alone. actually, for the production value and not a lot else: the script has so far left me quite cold.

not sure about the status of groups like dogma, though -- they seem to advertise in different circles, so it's hard to say. but there are others worth hunting down, like the sigma phi kappa group (based in america), who aren't producing any more but did some interesting sounding material.

oh, and i gather once in a blue moon productions might be making a comeback, so i guess we're due for a blue moon some time soon.

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OK, so they did release Part One of Humphrey the Bag last year, and that went for 25 minutes. But one episode in 2-3 years is hardly what I would call the output of an active production team.

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such a release is news to me. i'm talking about the davros sketch howard did in december which ran to about a minute and a half.

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Well, I wouldn't be so sure of that, mate. BTR was actually the first group to release material via MP3 onto the Internet, although very few people remember that. My original 1992 production, Doctor Who & The Daleks, received an on-line release in really badly encoded MP3 format in late 1997, which beats F10 and their 1998 release of Regeneration of the Daleks. That was back in the days of my old Cloister Room web site, which I ran from July 1997 - December 1998.

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in that case, f10 are good for absolutely nothing after all. which isn't something i'm shedding any tears over, quite frankly.

btw, was your production released under the banner of btr productions? and it might be more valid to claim that f10 were the first to do this sort of thing regularly. or something. anyway, i'm not about to defend my statement as i'd feel like peter haining defending himself against david howe: i simply wasn't using the net to access fan audios at the time (hadn't heard of them, in fact), and i'm just repeating what everyone else has told me over the years.

i stand very pleasantly corrected.

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Me too - although it does have all the essential trappings to make it a wonderful Saward-esque script, which is apparently the type of story they wanted to produce.

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what, decent first episode and the rest is shit?

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I am sure that if UR had a half-decent release schedule, they'd still be far in advance of what the rest of us are doing.

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well, don't knock them too much -- they've been extremely active in the last few days alone. they've -- wait for it -- revamped their entire web site! and they've even misspelled kevin hiley's name! now if that's not productivity, i don't know what is.

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However, like F10, they've stagnated, and as a result the more active groups have left them behind, surging forward onto bigger and better things.

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let's not forget that said more active groups were already overtaking them when they first started! hell, even aron's xa material was far more prolific and voluminous before ultimate reality than even ultimate reality is now.

actually, do you remember future echo productions? they made a trio of very good productions about three of four years ago, in the space of a couple of months, and ultimate reality have yet to catch up to them on a basis of minutes produced alone! plus, although their material was a bit rough around the edges and didn't have the production values of caverns of blood, it was still a damn sight more entertaining. i guess this is why i prefer the work of robert rodriguez to that of george lucas: i prefer rough and ready but entertaining to slick and vapid and dull.

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Part of me is glad both F10 and UR have stagnated. Both groups were ahead of their times in so many fields, but by not releasing much of anything, it allows the rest of us to slowly catch up, and then pass.

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i think we've caught up pretty quickly, myself. we were passing f10's quality by the end of our first season, our scripts were better than ultimate reality's even when they were still loyhargil or zindignite or whatever it was (i'm still waiting for the end of the krios factor, people! and looking for copies of any of it, for that matter), and our production values passed theirs in the space of around another season's worth of material.

plus, let's not forget that some of the newer groups have been very good from the start, such as qr.

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Really? Where did you hear this? Am interested to know more!

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f10 forum, i think. well, owen's constantly going on about his various tech tests and how he's preparing for something and so forth, so i guess i just assumed. i could of course be entirely wrong. but i do recall reading somewhere (maybe even his site) that a proper dramatic work is in pre-production or something.

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A "comeback"? What did they release - did I miss it?!

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they released a multi-doctor single episode many moons ago, which featured audio clips from the five doctors plus new characters all voiced by owen. not really worth listening to, even by owen's admission, i understand. but it was a crossover adventure (of sorts) before aron got started, which has got to stand as some sort of precedent.

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BTR, The DWADs, DAM, PF, BF. (and nobody tell me that BF are not produced by fans because I'd hit you.)

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this sounds accurate -- right down to the brackets. i keep wanting to include xa in the list, but aron's been plugging away at his current production for about three years (go check out his message archive at the f10 forum for proof!), and all he's released in the meantime have been two christmas specials and something he produced in first-year uni. oh, and a stage play, but for some reason he's unwilling to upload the video version of it that i edited around a couple of years ago. it's not much of a play (wish i'd kept a copy so i could review it, though), but it's got one excellent scene in which an audience member gets up and heckles the entire production. plus, she's got the best singing voice out of the whole troupe! a truly magnificent scene, and one i think i've stashed away on a dvd for repeat viewing.

also, in response to robbie's asking where the new f10 production can be found, my answer is: "nowhere on their web site!" i'd suggest you sift through the forum posts for a link, but for some reason the main forum threads don't date back any earlier than november of last year! i haven't yet found it myself, but i've found the link for the sketch i was actually referencing in the first place: floorten.com/humphreyaudio/sketch.ogg

btw, does anyone know why the f10 board has a forum called "humphrey the bag", which contains one thread on "custom icons" (i.e. avatars)? now that matt's revealed the name of the sketch as being humphrey the bag, i'm wondering what the connection's supposed to signify...

good luck: you're going to need it like you have no idea!